Say "Yes, and" to Life with Dayna Gowan

Hi friends, welcome back to connectedness. I'm Fernanda, your host and founder of Filled Cups. And this is the space where we explore what it means to grow, connect, trust ourselves, and show up authentically with each other. Today's guest brings such a refreshing and playful perspective to communication, confidence, and human connection. I'm joined by Dana Gowen, speaker, improviser, workshop facilitator, distinguished toastmaster, and host of the Improv Speaking podcast.

Through her work, Dana helps people use improvisation not just for performance, but as a tool for personal growth, communication, creativity, and building meaningful relationships. One thing that really stood out to me while learning about Dana's work is her belief that improv helps us let go of perfection, become more present, and truly listen to one another. And honestly, those are skills that so many of us are craving right now. We are going to talk about the power of improv, the power of the improv mindset, what yes and can teach us about relationships and we are why why play and creativity matter as adults and how learning to embrace imperfection can actually help us feel more connected to ourselves and to each other. So Dana, welcome to connectedness.

Hi Fernanda, thank you so much for having me. And that's a lot. That's a tall order. And we're going to get through what we get through today, too. And I love all of those talking points. How and I can talk about all of them for long periods of time. So, I'll do my best so we can get to all of that.

Great. So, I mean this I'm going to be asking you a few introductory questions so that the we can get to learn more about you. What you've said that improv was a gamecher in your life. What changed for you personally when you discovered it?

Yeah, and that's actually me softening it a bit and not trying to sound dramatic or exaggerating, but really improv has been life changing. Like not even game changing whatever game we're playing this game called life. It has been life changing for me just to go from very nervous public speaker which I was 10 plus years ago. I was a super nervous speaker and did Toast Masters to help me conquer my fear of public speaking. And then having conquered the fear of public speaking, I enjoyed speaking, but I was still kind of tied to my notes. I was very polished. I would get the feedback that I was polished, but then having that foundation of public speaking allowed me to want to branch out and try something new and get better at my impromptu speaking skills. And so that's what drew me to improv first, just to take a an improv 101 class. I was like, I want to get better at my table topics. Like in Toastmasters, they do table topics. I was like, improv will help me with my table topics.

And then when I took improv 101 or even it was a free 2-hour drop in improv class, I was like, where has this been all of my life? It was so much fun. It was so playful. I felt so connected to the 10 other people who were in the free drop in class. You know, we stood outside after class and like exchanged Instagram handles and numbers and we were all like, "We're going to take a 101 class together." And we never talked to each other ever again, I don't think.

But they were your best friends in the moment.

In the moment because we played together, we had fun. We connected on a level that wasn't just, "Hey, what's your name? What do you do? Where do you live?" We got to connect and see each other as people and like as fun people too, people with ideas and yeah in that and it happens after almost every improv class like there's a group that stays behind that chats because we are so connected, right? So I'm getting off topic here, but taking that improv class and then just getting more involved in improv. I I just kept going. I signed up for 101 and then 201, 301 and then a lot of my improv journey was during COVID times and so I did a lot online and so it was just so therapeutic. It was so healing because everything was so uncertain in the world and when you do improv, improv is so uncertain. You practice the skills of improv, but then you show up to a show and you don't know what you're going to perform. You show up to a scene and you don't know how your scene partner is going to react or respond or initiate.

And so you literally have to trust your skills that you've learned to keep going in the scene and and keep it going and funny. And and the same thing applies to life. And so I say that improv has been a lifecher because it has just it's helped me through the tough times. It's helped me see that I I have so much creativity. Yeah. That I didn't think I had before. I I was one that I said I am not a creative person. I have no creative bone in my body. I am not art like artistic. I I can't draw. I can't paint. And now I still can't draw and I still can't paint. And yet if you put a canvas in front of me, I'll try. I'll say yes and to it. So improv just like it fully expanded me. It allowed me to just accept myself as I am to show up and then if I get called on or get put on the spot in some way, whatever it is, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm in. Let's do it." I don't mind. And actually, I love being put on the spot now. I love spontaneity. I just I love what can come of things that we don't expect. And so, that has been the life-changing piece of it.

It's amazing. And it's super inspirational to hear you talk about this. Now, just a followup here for me is you didn't used to be like that before you found improv, right? Like were you

Correct? I was not a theater kid. I had never done theater in elementary school, high school, college. I was I was a sports kid. Yeah. And I started doing improv when I was 30. And so I I conquered my fear of public speaking around 25 26 because that's when I started Toast Masters. But then I had years of Toastmasters where I was I was tied to my notes. I would literally have my index cards in hand, reading from them or having to glance at them and just recognizing like, okay, I still have some more room to grow. And finding improv in my 30s and I just turned 38 last week, so I've been on this Thank you. Yeah, I've been on this journey now for six years or so. I guess that math doesn't math. No, that does. I don't know. Third. I I discovered improv in my 30s. Maybe I was 32. Who's counting?

But yeah, it's something that I picked up recently and it has just been so much fun to explore. And the thing about improv, yes, when you watch improv like Whose Line Is It Anyway or you go to an improv show that's very funny, you think of improv as comedy and it it is something that makes us laugh, but the skill set behind it is the the game changing, the life-changing part. And it is just so much fun. And you can literally pick it up and learn at any age, which is the cool part, too.

That's so You're making honestly, you're selling it to me. I'm going to go sign up for improv 101. It's

Yes, we we can do it together hopefully if I can find the time. Let's do it together because I love I love any any stage. Like I just It's such a great refresher to learn those skills again.

It It is. and and and what you described about making connections with the people in the first class. I actually went through that last year. I I I took a like an improv class. It was my first ever and I felt like I was so close to the people in that class by the end of the class. So I I and it was, you know, silly exercises, nothing too crazy. We weren't putting a a play in or a performance. we were just kind of riffing off each other, you know, with with some instruction from the teacher, of course, but I felt I I get what you mean about connection and I also came from the Toastmasters background. So, for those people who do have don't know about Toast Masters and I you're not my first Toastmaster guest. I have had one other one. Yeah, she mentioned table topics. stable topics is when you uh you have to come up to the table and do an improvised speech in the spot like based on a prompt that you just heard. So for uh people who are practicing public speaking that's one of the things that Toast Masters makes us practice. So, and it can be very scary for people who like to be prepared and, you know, they want to they want to know have their notes. They want to have prepped everything they're going to say. They want to have considered all of the different scenarios and situations that could come up. And so, yeah, to throw the impromptu speaking at people. I've been in recent Toastmasters meetings where people were like, "No." Like guests were like, "I don't want to do table topics. I don't even want to try. Like, not yet. Not yet."

Yeah. And I get it because I was there too. I mean I I would try and it it didn't go well. But I would try and then I would be in my head later going, "Oh my god, like why did I say that? I could have said this. I could have said this." You know, you're like overthinking after. But I get I get the scary part of it, too. Yeah.

Yeah. No, totalmente. So you also have a podcast, right, Dana? And your podcast explores communication, creativity, and performance. I've listened to a couple of episodes, but I haven't had time to go back into your timeline yet. Like, what kinds of conversations are you most passionate about having in your podcast?

Yeah, my podcast is called Improv Speaking, and the transcript always spells it wrong. It always calls it improbably Speaking, which I don't know. I mean, I we're all uh I Yeah, I don't know what that even means. I'm trying to like make a joke out of it. I can't yet. But I guess me me running the podcast is would have been a very improbable thing years ago, but now it's not. It's improve speaking. And the cool part about the podcast is I can talk to just about anybody. I talk to experienced speakers and improvisers. I talk to friends and people who've taken improv classes just for fun or for business or corporate skills, you know, to help with their workplace development. And I talked to people who use improv in their daily lives and don't consider it improv. They just aren't of the improv mindset that they call it improv. But I talked to one of my best friends early on. I talked to one of my best friends, Rebecca, who's a chef. And so she worked at like a high-end restaurant and now she's teaching up and coming chefs, you know, the skills that they need to work in the in the restaurant industry and stuff.

And yeah, like all of it is it's improvised, but she never called it improv. For her, it was like you need the skills. You learn the skills of chopping and cooking and then you can go off script after that. So you don't go unchopped. You don't go on that show chopped as a new chef. you go unchopped later once you have those skills to be able to improvise. And the same thing is true of of improv, right? Like we learn these skills and they're very I wouldn't say common sense skills, but they're very innate skills that we've forgotten about as we've grown up and we've gotten in serious adult mode. But these skills of collaboration and listening and communication and just allowing ourselves to be creative without judgment. And that judgment piece is huge. And so yeah, just like all those skills like we can learn again and then when we're put in situations that we didn't prep or plan for, we can allow ourselves to improvise.

But I know so many people and I know I'm getting off track here, but I know so many I know so many people who are they're like, "Oh, with speaking I don't mind speaking off the slides, but I hate Q&A." And I'm like, I love Q&A. I love Q&A. It's so much fun because you you get to explore what the audience was thinking. You don't have to know all the answers and in fact like you don't make it up like in an improv scene you make it up but when you are asked a Q&A question in a presentation clearly you don't make it up but you could say well what do you think about that or in your experience what have you learned and you can toss it back to them. There's so many different ways but in our heads we panic and we go I need to be the expert. I need to be credible here and I need to have an answer. And once you can let go of that judgment and that pressure, it becomes so much more freeing to just sit with the audience and be like, "What questions do you have after that? What did you learn?"

So, all that to say, the podcast I really cast a w a wide net and I can talk to anyone. And the hard part is having the time to talk to everybody because I have a full list of everyone I want to interview. So many Charlotte people I've met, including you, like, you know, just having the time to record all these great episodes, they'll come. And I've had about 50 episodes, over 50 episodes in a like three and a half years. I took a long break with maternity leave and then moving across the country now to Charlotte. So, uh, I think I've had like 10 or 11 months off of the podcast. But my biggest win for the podcast is that I've been consistent with it in that it's still going. I'm releasing one to two episodes a month right now. And I try to focus on Yeah. public speaking. I will have on some public speaking coaches or uh really experienced speakers. But then I love the other side of like how improv applies to life. like I haven't released it yet, but I just talked to somebody who did a whole YouTube series on improv and parenting and how improv skills can help in our parenting. And I find that so fascinating because it does. It's helped me and everyone who does improv is like, it's made me a better parent.

Wow.

Okay. So, I didn't see that coming. I did not see that coming, but I'll roll with it. I personally need all the parenting help I can get. So, I can't wait for this episode. Just the flexibility of it, right? Because yeah, we our kids keep us on our toes. I mean, I my little girl's almost two, so I'm I'm in like the thick of toddleress, but yeah, I mean, I know you're going through the growing child and you have older kids, too. Like, I can't even imagine, too.

Well, I I I actually need to listen to this improv for parenting thing because, you know, like it's hard. Like, parenting is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And it didn't come naturally to me. And there's no manual. There's plenty of books, but it's all on their experience and like what's worked for them, which may not work for you.

Exactly. That's true. There's that's true. But yeah, so that so thank awesome job on your podcast 50 episodes. Thank you. I I just FYI, I I I talked to a lady who produces episodes the other um produces podcasts. She told me that the average podcaster uh gives up after 12 episodes. So give yourself a pat on the back. And and I believe this one that you and I are recording is is like our my 30th episode. So I'm very excited. Thank you for being the 30th.

Yes. So for people who don't know about much about improv, one of the core improv principles is yes and could you please spend a little time explaining what that means and why it's so powerful even beyond the stage.

Yeah. And a lot of people I think when they think of improv they've heard of the term yes and they hear get thrown around and there's the assumption that yes and means saying yes to everything. And when you are on stage in an improv scene, it is a great guideline to accept what your scene partner gives you to say yes to the scene they're creating. the gift. They call them gifts or offers that they've given. If they've labeled you as a really strict teacher who's like setting really tough tough rules, then that's a gift and that's an offer and you get to play that character that they've just given you. And I don't know why my mind went to that, but it did. And then you know you so yes, you can accept it, but then yes and is accept and build. So you accept what's given to you and you build off of it. And so you don't just say, "Well, yes, I am a really strict teacher." You then say, "Yes, I'm a really strict teacher." And you're going to sit in that seat for the next eight hours. And if you get up even to use the bathroom, like you are going to be grounded. And yeah, I said grounded at school. You're going to be grounded. And that's a very strange uh very dramatic character that I just created. But then you you built on you built on it. And then you can play the scene. Maybe it's a teacher students or there's a bunch of students in the class and the teacher has to be really strict. It never has to be that dramatic or even that like rules enforcing, but that's just the scene I created in my head.

But yes and goes way beyond the stage too, right? So yes and helps scenes and improv shows to move along because if I were to say no, I'm not a strict teacher. I'm a really nice florist and I'm here at school today to give you flowers for everyone. the audience watching is like, "Wait, what? I thought you were a mean teacher and now you're a florist." Like, it doesn't make sense. You can backtrack and you can you can make up for it, but it makes it so much harder, right? And when you start working in the corporate world and you just even in you become an adult, right, you find that you get told no a lot. And then you start to say no to yourself more because you're like, well, no, I can't do that. That's not logical. That's not possible. No, I can't start a podcast on improv and public speaking because what? Who's going to listen to me? Who's going to listen to me talk about that? I don't have an audience. I'm a newbie improviser. What will people care about me and what I have to think and say about improv? No, I can't do that because I work full-time and I don't have time to produce a podcast, too. No, I can't start my business called Improv Speaking. That's improv ly speaking because I I don't have a business degree. I have a public health degree. Like, I've never gone to school for business. What do I know about starting a business? No, no, no, no, no.

And you hear it a lot. You hear it a lot when you're an adult. You hear it a lot in the working world. People think that, you know, saying no is, you know, being logical and practical and, oh no, we just, you know, we don't have the budget for that. And saying yes and to myself is why I'm here on this podcast. It is why I have my own podcast. It's why I have my own business because I have accepted that I had this idea that I wanted to start the podcast. I wanted to start the business and then I built upon it. And listen, I started my business I think in 2022 it became official. I think I started it the year before. So been in business four to five years. It was a side hustle for four years. Now it's full-time business. And I did not have all the answers when I started. And in fact, I'm still finding some of the answers. But that's that yes and piece. It's like I accepted that I wanted to do this. I said yes to the idea and then built upon it as I went.

And I know we don't always have the time, the money, the logistics to be able to do everything. But at work for instance in corporate America I'll say I can't speak for every other country but corporate America we tend to get together we huddle and we have these brainstorming meetings and we go okay we need to innovate innovate innovate we need to create a new product we need to create a new program we need to do this thing all right all all ideas welcome on the table everyone throw an idea out someone throws an idea out and then and then the person facilitating like no that won't work we don't have the time or the money to do that. Can you relate to this, Fernanda?

Oh, yeah. Well, so a lot of what you said has been pretty profound and and and empowering to me and I'm hoping the listener about like saying yes and to your life instead of no or instead of yes, but or instead of that's not going to work because, right? Mhm. So that was I just wanted to take a pause and and recognize how powerful that was and your last point about corporate brainstorming. I used to love brainstorming with that was my one of my favorite things to do when I was in corporate but you're right there's a lot of brainstorming sessions that are a lot of times they are very unregulated I guess. I don't know if that's the right word.

That's a great word. No, that's a good word. They don't establish protocols for the process of brainstorming. So they're for example, they don't discourage killing people's ideas. So, cuz if if you have somebody in a meeting and they're already shy, they're already afraid to speak up and let's say if they have a brilliant idea and they they build up their courage to finally say the idea and then whoever is running the meeting is just like, "No, that's not going to work because of XYZ." Like all of a sudden, you killed what could have been a potent a really great idea. you also are harming that person's confidence and you're making people feel like their ideas don't matter or like they're they're not being heard. So that I think that's a really great example that you're bringing up. So So like to try turn it back to improv. It sounds to me like and I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it sounds to me like the improv isn't just a technique, but it's like a life philosophy too. Would you would you agree?

For me, yes. And I think a lot of improvisers like realize that these skills that they're learning in class to help on stage actually expand out to help with life in general. For me, and I I can't speak for everyone, but they become more social. You become more open to meeting people and being able to have conversations with just about anybody, right? You become more open to collaboration, too. And to a point to the point about the the brainstorming meeting at work, I I just want to make clear I'm not saying that you have to say yes to every idea and then implement it. But we tend to in brainstorming meetings will we'll be like, okay, throw out all the ideas and then we we stress test them. I call it stress testing at the same time. And that means like logistics planning, like what actually works. And so when you have you you it's really hard to have both hats on at the same time. It's really hard to say yes and to all the ideas and then stress test them. You really have to separate the two. So you say all ideas are welcome. You really have to model that too. And you have to accept all the ideas and it doesn't mean you have to understand them. If someone throws out an idea, you say that's that's interesting. Tell me more. And I like to like do the hands like can you expand on that? Tell me more. I'm I'm interested.

All right. Then you like you document it. You kind of you do the whole brainstorming meeting. Throw ideas on the wall. Let's see what sticks. Throw them up on the wall. And then either later in the meeting or at a different time, then you stress test. Okay. Logistically, what do we have funding, time, energy, capacity? How can we logistically do some of these ideas? And it's possible and most likely that some of the ideas that get thrown out in the the brainstorming meeting can't be done. But then the ideas that were generated two, three, and four yes ands after that actually can be.

But those ideas would have been shot down the minute you said no. And if you crushed someone's confidence, they may never speak up in a meeting again, too. So you're really modeling the behavior and just the the mindset of yes and when you can explore you're open to exploring all ideas and and that you know that's great in the boardroom it's also great in life to you be like hey let's chat yes and let's see what we can do together right right and I never shot I never shoot down ideas you know you know for collaboration or anything the only time that I will I will be hesitant or I will establish boundaries because I want to be clear, you still have your boundaries. Like if it is a if it's not a yes for you, then it's a no. For me, if it's not a yes and for me, it's a no. And that's generally how I guide my boundaries.

So, I do get like requests for podcast guests and if I'm like I can't see the connection or like I'm having to do a lot of work and like you're not giving me anything on like the tie into improv, then it's not it's not aligning. It doesn't feel aligned. It doesn't feel like yes and um but I won't say no right away. It's more like tell me more, let's explore and then we make the decision after that. So yeah, I try to be really uh clear and also I'm very mindful of boundaries. Boundaries are important. A no is a no and that is a full sentence. Very important. But being able to say yes and and really accept and build upon ideas, game changer, life changer, skill changer. It's everything.

Yeah. Well, so thank you for that. I'm curious about improv in general, how it improves listening, you know, especially here in the connectedness podcast, we talk about making friends, social skills, relationships, and I since I started filled cups, I I consider myself a little bit of a social scientist researcher in the field. And I noticed that conversation skills can there there's a lot that that can be improved like in the out in out in the wild, right? And so improv requires real listening, right? Like you have to be paying attention to what the other person is saying so that you can Yes. and and not just but when you take it to the world of conversations a lot of times conversations are just somebody waiting for their turn to talk why why would why would you think and I don't know if you've thought a lot about this but like why why do you think it's so hard for people to truly listen to each other

I just went to a conference a few months ago and there was a speaker who um one of her main topics is listening is your superpower. And I just love that as a whole topic. And she does not come at it from an improv lens, but everything she was saying, I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's improv. That's improv." Like the active listening piece of it so many times we're in conversations with people that we we hear something they say and we go, "Oh, I want to respond to that." And sometimes we do. And listen, if you're with friends at lunch or dinner and you're chatting, like the art of conversation, it es and flows. It changes. People, you know, give space for others or ideas come up and you're like, you know, and it that's just kind of natural conversation with friends. I don't think about it that much with friends unless like they're going through a hard time or like they really need space to listen. But I I notice like when chatting with good friends and stuff like the conversation just like bounces and directs and goes all over the place. But when you are chatting with people for you know the first time or in like a a business relationship or you know a communications relationship or a connecting networking there's so many times that people are responding of like what's in it for me too and I just think back to the listening is your superpower piece

And one of the exercises she had us do is somebody would get to speak for 60 to 90 seconds uninterrupted and even if you had something you wanted to say, you you just you let them keep talking. And what we found in that exercise is that it went beyond surface level that they actually started to share real feelings and share other thoughts that they weren't originally inclined to share. And the same thing happens in improv. I have an exercise I like to do called rant and reframe. And it's basically you give 60 seconds to rant or rave. You can rant or rave. So you can rant about something that like really grinds your gears and makes you upset or you could rave about something you truly love. But you have 60 seconds to do it. And um for public speaking, this is really good for vocal variety just to be able to like have different inflections and show emotions when you talk. And then there's a person listening on the other side of it and they're not listening. There's the instructions given. You're not listening to solve their problem. So if they're ranting about something, you are not listening to solve their problem. You are listening to learn more about them and about their priorities.

And when you can step back and even have the space to be like, I can't respond for the next 60 to 90 seconds, so I don't even have to craft a response yet. All I have to do is listen. that pressure is off to sound smart or intellectual or connect the dots or find the meaning of the conversation or whatever you're in the conversation for. The pressure is off and you're just there to learn from the person and see them. And what a skill that is, what a gift that is in a world where we're always rushed and we feel like we need to to say the perfect thing in the shortest amount possible, which by the way, doing none of that in this episode. I'm very long-winded and that's okay. That's okay. It's such a gift to have someone listen like you're doing now because when we jump in whether we're well-intentioned or not, like usually we're not jumping in to redirect the conversation. We're not jerks. Some people are, we're not jerks. But you're like, you said something, for example, like, "Oh, I have a cat." And um this weekend we were doing this and I immediately jumping, what's your cat's name? and you go, "Oh, the cat's name is White Socks because he's got like little white feet." And I go, "Oh my gosh, my grandma had a cat named White Socks. How great is that?" And now we're talking about grandma's. And you didn't get to finish your thought. You didn't get to finish what you were sharing about your weekend and um how well it was or how something happened. And again, no mal intent there, but now that that question has redirected the conversation somewhere else.

And so it is such a superpower to listen uh in improv, you have to listen to what the your scene partner is telling you and also showing you. So if you're in your head going, "Okay, I'm going to plan this scene is going to go this way and I'm going to I'm going to say this thing so that it flows this way." You can just throw all that out the window because you're working with somebody else who has their own set of ideas, thoughts, experiences that they bring to the table. So they are going to respond how they respond and you can't you if you force it it's going to show. You have to be present and trust that you can respond in a way that fits the scene the conversation and actually you'll find that just listening to understand and then respond when you're the time is open you'll have that right response and it doesn't even have to be right. you'll have that response needed to keep the conversation going and giving that person space is such a gift and uh the more that we can give it the more that we can listen instead of filling the space the better. So with that I will stop and I will listen now.

So this was beautiful. Thank you. And you you brought something that I wasn't even expecting you to bring, which is the beauty of of conversation, right? Like you don't know where the conversation's going to end end up. You you brought the concept of interrupting and redirecting and how that might you might have lost a thread of conversation that could have been even more meaningful. And I I do see that. But I also do I see I see a lot of the I think there's a term for it but I forgot the term is when you say like I have a cat and then I go oh really I also have a cat. Mhm. And I think people are doing that to try to find commonality but it it's and it's well intentioned but I think it does sometimes it's a conversation stopper.

Okay. Like where where do we even go next? Right. And if you can't pick it up. Yeah. So I see a lot of those conversational patterns and I also see no a lot of conversations where people one one side has zero curiosity about the other side. Yes. Yeah. where especially when you're in a context of trying to get to what like I you were mentioning earlier when you're with your friends the conversation can go all over the place but you the key term there is you're already with your friends but what if you're like in a context of like a meetup group where you're trying to meet people and make friends and and the purpose is to have a conversation then I think I could be naive here but I really think that improv skills could help people especially if they have a little bit of social anxiety or if they're having a hard time if they feel like their conversations were never uh very fruitful like maybe improv could help. Would you what do you think of that idea?

Absolutely. And I think the great thing about improv too is it is so accepting of everyone and what it's taught me is that my ideas that I bring to the scene are just as valid as what someone else brings. And so I, you know, I am hesitant or, you know, I used to be hesitant about speaking up at meetings and and raising my hand and asking a question, right? Yeah, and of course the your workplace dictates those dynamics and can set the the tone and the model and the safety of those things too. Um, so that's a whole culture talk for another day. But just having that acceptance and being like what I share is valid and I accept myself for where I'm at. And I think improv's given me the tools there to be like I have ideas that I can also bring to the table and what I share matters. And so, yeah, for someone who is hesitant and like, "Oh, I just don't have the greatest ideas. I'm not fast thinking. I need time to think about it." Improv helps to kind of cut that time in half. It like cuts the judgment time in half because you make so many mistakes in improv practice and in the scenes. None of it's perfect and it's not supposed to be. Like, that's the beauty of it. You're making it up as you go. So, there's no right or wrong. And so you you learn eventually that uh you don't have to judge your ideas so hard.

And so then when you're off stage, when you're living your life, you're hopefully also bringing that to the table of like I'm not judging I'm not as judging of my ideas of others, but mostly of ourselves because we're our own worst critics for sure. And so like letting go of that judgment piece and just realizing that I can just exist and be in this scene of life is such an amazing feeling to have. And I think it it shows up in conversations when you're talking with people, when you're talking with new people. That lack of judgment helps a ton.

Oh my gosh, Dana. Like everything you just said is really really profound. Again, I I really feel like if you uh need another career, you could go into the mental health space and be like a motivational speaker for people who have struggle with self-criticism.

There there's people there and excuse me for interrupting because I got excited. There are people who do improv for mental health and improv for training mental health therapists. There are people who do improv for therapy in the sense it doesn't replace therapy, but it gives you some of those skills that I just talked about like the the judgment that we have or you know, honestly just allowing yourself to play and not think about the things that are bothering us for a few minutes can also help too. So yeah, there's so many applications of improv. I can literally I think connect improv to all almost anything which I try to do often and and maybe it's a loose thread a loose connection but I see improv everywhere. Everything I do I see improv and I that's that's so joyful to me too.

No it sounds like I mean we can feel it too by listening to you and getting your the joy that you feel from it. It's contagious. And so as far as joy, like if we keep it to this thread about joy, you know, I think a lot of us adults when when we're adulting, we we kind of lose our joy and we forget to do we forget to be playful. We forget to do things that bring us joy. Um you I in your website you talk about creativity and play being essential for happiness and well-being. What why do you think adults disconnect from play and you know do you have suggestions for how people can reconnect with their playful side?

Yeah. Yeah. Great question there. I'm actually doing a presentation on this week when we're recording on Wednesday on finding humor and joy in a stressful world. And uh if anyone lets me, I usually add in finding humor and joy in a stressful dumpster fire world. Sometimes they cut the dumpster fire part, but we it feels like a dumpster fire of a world, right? Because there's so much going on locally and globally, it's just like you open your phone, you scroll on social media, there's another news story that is just so emotional, so heartbreaking. It just it feels like we're constantly on fire, which then limits our nervous systems, limits our mental health. Yeah. So, no wonder we're struggling to find play and joy in this world that feels constantly on fire, right? Because um even if you don't open social media, like just the pressures that we have as adults of uh caretaking, whether you're taking care of people, pets, plants, I've heard that one. I've taken that from somebody, but I love that. If you're a caretaker of people, pets or plants or anything else, like there's a lot of pressure that comes with that money and time and energy capacity, all of those things are barriers for us feeling healthy and being healthy and taking care of ourselves.

And so I get it. And then we get in these this kind of tunnel vision, tunnel mindset of like I go to work, I take care of kids, and that's it. That is all that I do. That's all I have time for. And then we don't have time or we say we don't have time to have any joy. And I say that you can find joy anywhere. So I love the term joy as an alternative to humor because when we hear humor, we think you have to be funny, you have to be a stand-up comedian, have a tight five that makes people laugh, or you're you're doing your Netflix special, whatever. Humor is not that. That's comedy. Humor is just finding the funny and everyday things. But we tend to like really connect humor and comedy. But on one of the slides that I have for that presentation, I have a list of different words that you can use to replace humor. If you if that word doesn't resonate with you, there's joy, there's creativity, there's play, there's imagination, there's fun, there's silliness. Like there's there's so many words that we can use. And how can we find joy in everyday life?

For me, I love I love doing something out of the ordinary. So, you know, taking a different route to work or to daycare. I'm new to the Charlotte area. I I think I'm still new 9 months in and I love discovering like a new route or a new coffee shop or a new place. I'm like, "Oh, what's this?" Like today I went for a walk with a new friend, a new colleague and we went to the Flat Branch Preserve and it's 15 minutes from my house. Didn't know it exists. It's shady. It's in nature and it was just a wonderful walk that lit me up and like just kind of discovery is another word on that list. And I love the word discovery because when you're in discovery mode, you're open to possibilities. And so you can just you can see things, extra things that if you're in that tunnel mode, you don't see things that are outside of that. Yeah.

And so I had a podcast guest on. I'm releasing that soon. It'll probably be out by the time this episode comes on. But he is a researcher that studies humor and the effects the benefits and effects of humor on our bodies and also in the workplaces. And what he says is those memes that we share with each other, you know, if you share a meme on social media or something, that's your way of connecting. It's like, hey, I found this funny and I thought of you. I thought you would maybe think this is funny and I want us to share in the funniness of this or the joy of this. And again, joy is it's like the pressure is off to be funny. It's literally something that makes you smile, that makes you feel tingles, that makes you feel more excited about the world. And I have different exercises that we do in that one, but one exercise I love in particular in that presentation I'll share with you here. It's called find the fun in the mundane, or I like to call it the funne. I love I love a good portmanto. And I have them kind of think of a chore or mundane activity that uh they have to do. Washing dishes, folding laundry, doing the laundry, vacuuming, uh responding to text messages, responding to emails, any kind of mundane activity. And then I guide them to think of themselves as the champion of that activity. Like really envision that you are the Olympic champion of folding laundry. So that is my that's my mundane activity is folding laundry. And I'm like, "Okay, I am the champion of laundry. Like I can mix and I can match up these toddler socks up so fast faster than anybody else. And I'm now I'm in like play mode. I'm like matching socks and folding and trying to do it quickly. And now I'm having fun instead of being like there's so much laundry, these tiny socks. I have 50 pairs of tiny socks that I have to fold. This is taking forever." and instead I chose fun. So it is a choice that we make and as adults we feel like we don't have that choice. We feel like we have to be super serious. We have a lot of people depending on us. We have kids. Yeah. We have our parents or you know older generation depending on us. I get it. It it is hard and that there are a lot of pressures right? And at the same time we still have a choice in how we show up in this world. And even if we feel like we don't or we've forgotten that choice, that choice is there for us to see again and to choose. And we can choose to find the small meaningful pockets of joy that still bring a glimmer of hope, a glimmer of a smile, a glimmer of light to our lives. And we just have to be open to seeing that.

Oh, that's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. So Dana, in the I I'm getting getting close to the closing questions where I will be asking you to talk about, you know, where people can find you and stuff like that and some closing thoughts. But before we get there, can I do a quick fire? Yeah. Round with you. This the first time rapid fire quick answer. Not this long drive. Quick fire on the connectedness podcast. Let's do it. What's your biggest communication pet peeve?

Biggest communication pet peeve when people are reading from their notes. Like I don't mind that you had notes. I don't I love that you prepared for it. But when you're there at the presentation, you know the material. You know you know what you wanted to say. Let go of the notes. Let yourself be seen. Let yourself be heard because I guarantee you it will land a whole lot better than if you're like, "Well, wait, what was I trying to say?" Oh, wait. Let me check my notes real quick. And I've been taken out of the conversation. So, I guess that's more of a public speaking pet peeve than communication pet peeve. But I'm going to stop there because this is rapid fire.

Yes. Yes. Favorite word.

My 2026 word for the year is possibilities. Oh, possibilities. I love it. Yeah.

Most awkward public speaking moment. Oh gosh. All of them. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm thinking here. I I think just like the first year I would say. There's no direct moment. I'm sure I'll think of it as soon as you end, but just the first year of conquering my fear of public speaking. Like in Toastmasters, I tried to do a speech a month and I'm sure there were tons of flubs, tons of mistakes and in my head mistakes were bad. And so the the minute I made a mistake, okay, actually I did think of one. I did think of one. So I I stalled long enough that I thought of one. My second speech that I did for Toast Masters in that journey to conquer my fear of public speaking, I talked about Hurricane Katrina and my experience with it. I was a senior in high school when Hurricane Katrina hit. And I grew up in New Orleans. I was a senior in high school in New Orleans, let me say, when Hurricane Katrina hit. Okay. And I did my speech on that, but I didn't have control over my face or body. So, I was like kind of smiling as I was talking about how Hurricane Katrina flooded the city of New Orleans and my grandma got her house got 10 ft of water. My school got 10 ft of water and I'm smiling in this podcast like trying to imitate and how awkward that is. Like I'm talking about really serious sad things and yet like I'm smiling cuz I literally don't feel vulnerable enough to show vulnerability and sadness. So I don't know what else to do besides smile or talk with my teeth. And so, yeah, that was a very early awkward one for sure.

Okay. Well, live and learn. Live and learn. Yeah, I don't do that anymore. One thing that people should say yes and to or yes and to more often, like

I was in employee wellness for 10 plus years. And so, yeah, you should say yes and to your health and well-being more. Take the walk. Even if you're like, "No, I can't because I have meetings and I've got to go pick up the kids." Please pick up the kids on time. Like, please do that. But say yes and to the walk at some point. Say yes and to moving your body in a way that feels good. Say yes and to your health because it is so important.

And finally the last one on the quick fire. Do you consider yourself an introvert, an extrovert or an ambivert?

I used to be really shy like in elementary school, middle school, a little bit of high school. Like I was I was comfortable around my friends, but then anywhere else I would be really shy. I made the varsity volleyball team as a freshman and I was the only freshman on the team and I don't think I said a word to anybody. Wow. That whole season I was so quiet. Um my sophomore year I like bloomed and felt more comfortable on the team and like the coaches were like, "Who are you? You're so different." Yeah. And I was like, "No, I'm still me, but I'm feel more comfortable." Um, so I was I was more introverted then, but you can probably tell I am like super extroverted. I value connection. I value creativity. I am so lit up and aligned when I'm talking with people and connecting. And the hardest part for me is sitting down and actually doing the work. Yeah. Of business and like the follow-ups and actually like all that ideas generating, saying yes and and actually like doing the work. but 100% extrovert that I still get drained and I still replenish my energy and relax but uh 100% I'm out like in talking with people and connecting.

Yeah. Interesting. That's awesome. Thank you. Okay, so closing questions. What's one small thing listeners can do this week to become a better listeners and communicators?

Yeah, I'm thinking of the a similar exercise or or the exercise that Brian had us do in that improvisational skills workshop. I do a similar one, too. But it's you listen to what the person said and then you respond using the last letter of their response. You respond with that letter to start your response. So, for example, Fernanda, you might ask, "What did you have for lunch today?" Yes. And so I would respond with yes that why yes I had a great lunch today. I had an egg sandwich on a bagel. And you would say lucky I love bagels. Oh my gosh love bagels. And I would say sure bagels are amazing. Who doesn't love bagels except for those who can't eat gluten now? Yes. You know. So yeah we would can have that conversation there. And it's like a little tool to get you to listen to the whole thing. I did very short sentences, but if you really listen to what the person says, you know, you don't know what they're going to say at the end. So, you literally just have to to listen for that last letter. And you don't have to tell somebody that you're doing that. You can just respond with a similar letter. As long as you you can get in your head kind of clunky and be like clunky about it. Yeah. Um, so you don't you don't have to get so clunky about it. But listening to the last word, to that last letter that somebody says when they're talking to you allows you to just have the freedom to listen and not have to worry about responding to anything. So I love last letter, first letter as an exercise for listening.

Awesome. Thank you. And finally, Dana, where can people find you, your workshops and the Improv Speaking podcast, and anything else you would want the audience to know?

Yeah, you can find me on the socials, on Instagram, I'm improving. Again, that's improving. On LinkedIn, I'm Dana Gowen. And right now I'm I'm tending to post more on LinkedIn just because that's easier for me, but I still post on Instagram, but you'll find more on LinkedIn if you're on there. And then my website is improvspeaking.com and I've got the link for the podcast on there. You can also find the Improving podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or other great podcast outlets out there.

Yes. Nice. Nice. Well, and I will make sure to put the links in the show notes too for those who are curious and want to find out more about you.

Actually, can I add one more thing just Yeah. to the website piece. And I also want to mention that I offer coaching, public speaking coaching. So, I offer one-on-one or small group. I call it improbably speaking coaching and the the difference between regular public speaking coaching that you think like you practice a speech, you get feedback. We can certainly do that. But I love that you just come unprepared and then we practice improv skills to help you feel more confident and comfortable on stage. So I've got some coaching. Cut that. So I just want to mention the coaching piece and I also do corporate workshops. So yes and to all and if you had anything that resonated please reach out. I would love to hear from you.

Definitely. Awesome. Thank you so much Dana. This conversation was so such a beautiful reminder that connection doesn't come from being polished or perfect. It comes from being present. I love the idea that improv can help us trust ourselves more, listen more deeply, support the people around us, and maybe even take take life a little less seriously. And honestly, I think we all need more spaces where we can laugh, play, be creative, and show up authentically without feeling like we have to get everything exactly right. Thank you so much for sharing your energy and wisdom with us today. And to everyone listening, I hope this episode encourages you to embrace a little more curiosity, creativity, and the yes and energy in your own life and relationships. Until next time, keep showing up authentically, keep trusting yourself, and keep filling your cup.