How to Overcome Social Anxiety | Therapist Explains (episode transcript)
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a little. Welcome back to Connectedness,
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the podcast where we explore what it
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really means to feel seen, understood,
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and connected. To ourselves and to
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each other. I'm really glad you're here
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today because we are diving into
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something that so many people experience
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but don't always talk about, which is
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open but don't always talk about openly,
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which is social anxiety. And I couldn't
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think of a better person to. Have
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this conversation with then my friend
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Danielle, who's not only someone I
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trust deeply, but also a psychotherapist
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who works closely with people navigating
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these exact challenges. Danielle, I'm
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happy to have you back on
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the podcast. Thank you. I'm happy
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to be here. Yeah, it's
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second time
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are going to unpack what social
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anxiety actually is, where it comes
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from, and most importantly, how people
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can begin to move through in
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a way that feels empowering and
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not overwhelming. And Danielle?To
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start off, would you want
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to define social anxiety in
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a way that people can
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really recognize in themselves? Yeah,
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sure. So social anxiety is
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really the fear of being
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criticized or negatively evaluated by
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others, or perhaps not. Being
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accepted, so usually in
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social situations, yes. OK
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and. So
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I think even I don't think it, thankfully
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I don't suffer from social anxiety, but I
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have been in situations where I felt
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self-conscious or I felt like a little
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out of place. Is it are we talking
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when we say social anxiety? Are we
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talking about like just being shy in
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public?Or is it more like like a
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debilitating thing or, or is it like on
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a spectrum? It's definitely on a
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spectrum. And so you bring up a good
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point about shyness because shyness is
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more about temperament and personality.
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Not necessarily about being socially
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anxious in the same way that
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you can be introverted and also
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not be socially anxious. So there's
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definitely some, you know, ways that
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you can define social anxiety separate
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from those. I think that for
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for those individuals who are. Dealing
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with anxiety around on social situations,
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it can range like it can
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be a a small amount of
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anxiety to a very debilitating amount
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of anxiety. And so individuals that
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are really debilitated by social anxiety
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disorder that feel extreme forms of
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stress. Kind of disproportionate
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to the situation. So for example,
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somebody who is or to to
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help you relate imagine that you
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have to go give.
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Presentation that is like the career
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defining presentation in front of high
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level executives. So that kind of fear,
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somebody who has, let's say a social
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anxiety disorder, so a very high amount
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of anxiety might feel that in just
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an everyday social situation like
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checking out at the grocery store.
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Or going to an event with friends
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that they were are aren't know and
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are comfortable with, but so they they
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can experience these extreme forms of
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anxiety in kind of everyday social
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situations. So that would be at the
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high end and that would be more
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disordered. Social anxiety disorder, but
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you can also have social anxiety and it
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not meet the threshold for a disorder. So
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that would just be kind of, if you know,
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a lot of people with social anxiety, just
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kind of they have that inner critic or
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that inner voice that's kind of like, you
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know, saying, oh, you're going to be make
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a fool of yourself or you're going to be
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judged. People aren't going to like you.
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Kind of that running dialogue, but not
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necessarily to the point where it's
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debilitating or prevents them from doing
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those things. OK, so I guess I,
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if I heard you correctly, the one
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of the things to watch out for
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is whether it's impacting it's
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debilitating is the word you used. Right.
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For what if it's gotten to a
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point where it's making you not do
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things or not want to get out
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of the house or not go to
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places that maybe could have been a
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good opportunity for you that might be
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getting to that debilitating point?
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Exactly so, and a good point. To mention
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about that is that usually there is a
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desire for connection. A person wants to
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go out and connect with others. They just
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find it difficult to do so as opposed to
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somebody who's let's say more introverted
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and really just enjoys being at home and,
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you know, profiting or doing whatever.
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And, and that necessarily doesn't have as
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much of, of that desire for the
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socialization. So it's having the desire
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for it, but also having something that
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that holds you back from being able to
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do it or prevent it kind of reduces
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the amount of times that you want to
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engage. Yeah, right, right. And, and, and
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how common is it? Do you see it
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more than than people than you somebody
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might expect?4.
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Yeah, it's a lot of people. I, I
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think I want to say it's about either
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maybe 10% of the population that has
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that, that deals with social anxiety. And
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I think a lot of people have symptoms
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or have these kinds of feelings but don't
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necessarily have a word for them or don't
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maybe. Don't realize until later on in
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life. Ohh that's what was going on. I
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was having social anxiety. So it is
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pretty common. Umm I I 10% is is
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more than I thought. Actually it's quite
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it's a pretty good portion of the
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population. I think I want to say it's
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either 10% or one in five. Something
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something of that nature that it's. Yeah.
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Wow. OK.
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You find from it like, you
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know, you share whatever you think
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is appropriate here, but do you
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find that it is more shaped
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by past experiences or by personality
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or or it's just is it
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the environment?I think
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it's a combination, like a lot of other
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things in terms of when we're talking
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about mental health, is that nature and
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nurture. So I think a lot of it
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stems from your early experiences with
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your caregiver kind of going back to
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attachment theories, like whether you're
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securely attached or anxiously. Attached
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kind of if you've had that more secure
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base than going out and having these
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social situations and having that sense
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of security and consistency can lend you
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to your chances of having social anxiety
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later in life are less. But I think some
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of it is also just your environment. Like
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let's say you were bullied when you were
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younger in school and you've had some.
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Formative experiences growing up that led
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you to want to avoid social situations,
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so both of those could you come into
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play. So could
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about this? What about that is like,
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let's say somebody identified like just
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listen to what you just said. And they
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identify in themselves that maybe their
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social anxiety is driven by like.
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Childhood trauma, emotional trauma or
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something like that.
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that it can be treated with
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therapy or Yes, Absolutely. Ohh yeah,
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absolutely. You can definitely have.
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We're delving into some of that
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to kind of look at where
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it started. It's always helpful. And
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then the most helpful thing is
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having reparative experiences, so being
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able to have other situations where
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you can kind of move through
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things to help build confidence and
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efficacy, whereas maybe even though that
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moment was defining for you, it
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doesn't. I mean, it's going to define the
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rest of your life. It can certainly be
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something that you work on in a in a safe
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environment with the therapist kind of
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going back to the memory going over it.
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And then kind of a lot of inner
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child work might come into play as well,
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kind of talking to that younger version
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of yourself, realizing, you know, what
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skills and abilities you have now that
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you didn't have then. So yes, it
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certainly is something that can be, can
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be overcome, overcome. That's good news.
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And so if somebody is going through
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a moment of social anxiety, what's going
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on internally in that moment? Or do
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you, Danielle, I'm asking like you've
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been there and you've done it all.
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But like, do you know, well, tell
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you like what, what, what thoughts are
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running through their heads and. Kind of,
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you know, in the moment, sure. So there's
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actually two things and all self
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disclosed. I do have social anxiety,
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right? I, I would say I'm, I'm recovering
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from social anxiety, right. It's
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something that it's still there. It
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operates in the background, but now I
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have coping skills so I can talk from a
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personal experience. I can also talk from
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a. Professional experience in terms of
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the training and the work that I've
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done with others. So what's going on
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for people with social anxiety is usually
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two things. There's physical symptoms,
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right? It might be heart racing,
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excessive sweating. The
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temperature is going off heart heart
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palpitations. It could be a range of
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physical cues, a glut of gut issues. Some
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people have a lot of you know, saying
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like your stomach is in knots kind of
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feeling that could be another symptom.
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And then thoughts as well as I'm these
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people aren't going to like.
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Um, what I have to say is
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stupid. They're going
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to judge me. Just
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kind of more talk forms of negative self
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talk and kind of like future tripping. So
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saying that there's going to be some sort
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of negative outcome or I'm going to be
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either criticized in some way or I'm
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going to end up looking dumb or looking
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like you don't know what I'm doing. I
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don't know what I'm saying. So there's
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really that like, fear of
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negative evaluation. Umm. It's sold.
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All those thoughts are going by the way,
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like just listening to you talk that way
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and say those things kind of feels bad.
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Like it feels like ohh, who you know
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it. It just my heart goes out to
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people who are having those thoughts in
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the moment because at least. Yeah,
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I know we're talking hypothetically about
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a situation, but I I think this
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kind of thing happens all the time.
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And from my perspective, those thoughts
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are all incorrect or false, you know?
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And it sucks to think that people
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are believing that about themselves.
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Well, and oftentimes. People know that
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rationally that that that those those
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thoughts aren't true, right? They can
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have a sense that, yes, I'm having these
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thoughts, but I I don't necessarily
273
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believe them, right? But it doesn't
274
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change that the way they feel, right? So
275
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even though you have my individuals might
276
00:11:57,647 --> 00:12:00,458
have an A rationalized. Idea that no,
277
00:12:00,458 --> 00:12:02,299
these these things, I'm probably probably
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when I walk into the room, not everyone's
279
00:12:04,755 --> 00:12:07,210
going to run out of the room screaming
280
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and pointing at me and saying well look
281
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what he's wearing or look what she's
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done. Yeah, there's this there's there's
283
00:12:13,655 --> 00:12:15,497
that awareness that that's probably not
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going to happen but it doesn't change the
285
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internal feelings around it. Yeah.
286
00:12:20,897 --> 00:12:22,252
OK, All right, so
287
00:12:22,346 --> 00:12:25,053
to keep social anxiety going or
288
00:12:25,053 --> 00:12:27,760
even make it worse over time?
289
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,467
Do you, does it make it?
290
00:12:30,467 --> 00:12:33,174
Does it get worse over time?
291
00:12:34,334 --> 00:12:37,277
Yes. It
292
00:12:37,277 --> 00:12:40,181
can so the The tricky thing
293
00:12:40,181 --> 00:12:43,084
about social anxiety is that it.
294
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With social anxiety, you tend to avoid
295
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social situations because of that fear of
296
00:12:49,564 --> 00:12:51,728
there being some sort of negative
297
00:12:51,728 --> 00:12:54,253
outcome. So and in avoiding it, it's
298
00:12:54,253 --> 00:12:56,778
creating a greater sense of fear. So
299
00:12:56,778 --> 00:12:59,664
really like one of the key things, and
300
00:12:59,664 --> 00:13:02,189
this might come up later in our
301
00:13:02,189 --> 00:13:03,631
conversation about treating social
302
00:13:03,631 --> 00:13:05,603
anxiety is cognitive. Behavioral therapy
303
00:13:05,603 --> 00:13:08,470
and one of the most efficient ways
304
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:11,337
is through exposure therapy So it's kind
305
00:13:11,337 --> 00:13:13,795
of like walking through situations so
306
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that you can see no, they're not
307
00:13:16,662 --> 00:13:19,529
going to run out of the room
308
00:13:19,529 --> 00:13:22,396
screaming and pointing at me, right OK,
309
00:13:22,396 --> 00:13:25,264
maybe I mispronounce a name or I.
310
00:13:25,554 --> 00:13:28,416
Forget a fact or I don't say things,
311
00:13:28,416 --> 00:13:31,279
I don't come out exactly the way they
312
00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:34,142
want it to. But guess what? I survived,
313
00:13:34,142 --> 00:13:36,647
right? I made it through the situation.
314
00:13:36,647 --> 00:13:38,794
So it's it's having those experiences
315
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that help to to move through the social
316
00:13:41,657 --> 00:13:43,804
anxiety, but without having any coping
317
00:13:43,804 --> 00:13:46,327
skills or without, you know. Having that
318
00:13:46,327 --> 00:13:49,315
awareness that you do need to be able to
319
00:13:49,315 --> 00:13:50,974
walk through these situations, whether
320
00:13:50,974 --> 00:13:53,962
you knock it out of the park or it
321
00:13:53,962 --> 00:13:56,617
doesn't go as smoothly as you had hoped
322
00:13:56,617 --> 00:13:59,604
for, but the more that you avoid it, the
323
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greater it gets. It builds its strength
324
00:14:01,928 --> 00:14:02,924
in the avoidance.
325
00:14:04,284 --> 00:14:07,142
OK. So the
326
00:14:07,142 --> 00:14:10,039
more yet. So it's almost like if
327
00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:12,523
you don't yourself the filling prophecy
328
00:14:12,523 --> 00:14:15,007
and negative and negative feedback cycle,
329
00:14:15,007 --> 00:14:17,904
yes, yeah, OK, so and you're right,
330
00:14:17,904 --> 00:14:20,802
we were going to try to talk
331
00:14:20,802 --> 00:14:22,872
about practical tools and coping
332
00:14:22,872 --> 00:14:24,528
strategies, right? Always, always
333
00:14:24,528 --> 00:14:27,440
focusing on the solution. Yes,
334
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,215
so so I was going to ask
335
00:14:30,215 --> 00:14:32,990
like what are some small realistic steps
336
00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:35,764
someone can take if they struggle with
337
00:14:35,764 --> 00:14:38,516
social anxiety? Um. And how
338
00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:40,893
can someone begin to challenge those
339
00:14:40,893 --> 00:14:42,874
anxious thoughts in the moment?
340
00:14:44,324 --> 00:14:47,224
So because like as I mentioned earlier
341
00:14:47,224 --> 00:14:50,124
that there are more physical symptoms and
342
00:14:50,124 --> 00:14:52,195
sensations associated with social anxiety
343
00:14:52,195 --> 00:14:55,095
as well as more cognitive, there's things
344
00:14:55,095 --> 00:14:57,995
that you can do in both of
345
00:14:57,995 --> 00:15:00,895
those areas. So in terms of more
346
00:15:00,895 --> 00:15:03,795
somatic things, you can do things like
347
00:15:03,795 --> 00:15:05,231
breathing exercises. Mindfulness
348
00:15:05,231 --> 00:15:07,795
practices little things such as like
349
00:15:07,795 --> 00:15:10,360
small movements, like for example, taking
350
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,351
your thumb and your index finger and
351
00:15:13,351 --> 00:15:15,916
rubbing them together gently to help
352
00:15:15,916 --> 00:15:18,480
ground you, grounding techniques to help
353
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,472
bring you back into the present moment.
354
00:15:21,472 --> 00:15:24,464
OK, so there are small like more.
355
00:15:24,854 --> 00:15:27,683
Somatic ways to work with that. And then
356
00:15:27,683 --> 00:15:29,804
there's also the, of course, the
357
00:15:29,804 --> 00:15:31,572
cognitive part, right, the thoughts
358
00:15:31,572 --> 00:15:34,048
surrounding the situation. So I think one
359
00:15:34,048 --> 00:15:36,523
of the greatest things that helped me
360
00:15:36,523 --> 00:15:38,998
personally that I heard is that most
361
00:15:38,998 --> 00:15:41,474
people are not really thinking about me
362
00:15:41,474 --> 00:15:43,949
or concerned about me. Most people are
363
00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:46,397
much more worried about. What's going on
364
00:15:46,397 --> 00:15:48,941
in their own lives, whether they had a,
365
00:15:48,941 --> 00:15:51,166
you know, a fight with their partner
366
00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:53,710
earlier in the day or what they're going
367
00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:56,253
to make for dinner or what their plans
368
00:15:56,253 --> 00:15:58,479
are for the weekend. Most people are
369
00:15:58,479 --> 00:16:00,705
pretty more self involved, right? So as
370
00:16:00,705 --> 00:16:02,930
much as we're thinking about their self
371
00:16:02,930 --> 00:16:04,520
ourselves and thinking that they're
372
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,474
thinking about us. Most likely they're
373
00:16:06,474 --> 00:16:08,216
not, they're probably just focusing on
374
00:16:08,216 --> 00:16:10,248
their own lives. So that's, that's just
375
00:16:10,248 --> 00:16:12,861
a, you know, one of the things that I
376
00:16:12,861 --> 00:16:15,183
heard that kind of helped shift things a
377
00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,876
little bit. But it's
378
00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:20,543
also about just kind of challenging some
379
00:16:20,543 --> 00:16:23,210
of those thoughts, like kind of asking
380
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:25,878
yourself, what is it that I'm afraid
381
00:16:25,878 --> 00:16:28,545
of, right? What do I think will
382
00:16:28,545 --> 00:16:31,213
happen? And maybe like thinking out of
383
00:16:31,213 --> 00:16:33,904
like. From a scale from
384
00:16:33,904 --> 00:16:36,854
like zero to 10 or, you know, zero to
385
00:16:36,854 --> 00:16:39,803
100%, how likely do I think that is? I
386
00:16:39,803 --> 00:16:42,425
mean, yeah. And, and so, so if somebody's
387
00:16:42,425 --> 00:16:45,313
going through all these thoughts. In
388
00:16:45,313 --> 00:16:47,530
the moment and their feeling socially
389
00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:50,116
anxious maybe from what just hearing what
390
00:16:50,116 --> 00:16:53,071
you're saying? Like maybe they can find a
391
00:16:53,071 --> 00:16:56,027
way to maybe take some deep breaths and
392
00:16:56,027 --> 00:16:58,613
challenge their thoughts if they have an
393
00:16:58,613 --> 00:17:00,830
opportunity to journal even better ahead
394
00:17:00,830 --> 00:17:03,416
of time. I know you probably can't
395
00:17:03,416 --> 00:17:06,214
journal in the moment. Maybe I
396
00:17:06,214 --> 00:17:08,422
had of time. Yeah, there are certainly
397
00:17:08,422 --> 00:17:10,945
some things that you can do. There's more
398
00:17:10,945 --> 00:17:13,152
on the spot techniques and then there's
399
00:17:13,152 --> 00:17:15,360
more cumulative things that you can put
400
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:17,252
into practice and journaling is certainly
401
00:17:17,252 --> 00:17:18,514
one of them, yes.
402
00:17:19,654 --> 00:17:22,064
So you we talked
403
00:17:22,064 --> 00:17:24,474
about techniques and somatic
404
00:17:24,474 --> 00:17:26,884
and cognitive and you're
405
00:17:26,884 --> 00:17:29,294
building confidence over time.
406
00:17:31,494 --> 00:17:33,704
Ohh I have another one if you don't mind.
407
00:17:34,954 --> 00:17:37,790
The great thing is also trying to focus
408
00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:40,627
more on others, like not being so ego
409
00:17:40,627 --> 00:17:43,109
driven, like not being so centered on
410
00:17:43,109 --> 00:17:45,590
self. So focusing on others. Maybe trying
411
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:48,427
to think of how can I, you know,
412
00:17:48,427 --> 00:17:50,909
make this this a more pleasant experience
413
00:17:50,909 --> 00:17:53,745
for all. Maybe I can, you know, give
414
00:17:53,745 --> 00:17:56,350
somebody a compliment just. For something
415
00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:58,615
that's that's that can provoke a lot of
416
00:17:58,615 --> 00:18:00,031
anxiety thinking about giving a
417
00:18:00,031 --> 00:18:02,013
compliment, but that could also be an
418
00:18:02,013 --> 00:18:03,995
exercise in terms of help, helping to
419
00:18:03,995 --> 00:18:05,977
move through some of it. But another
420
00:18:05,977 --> 00:18:08,242
thing in in before even getting to the
421
00:18:08,242 --> 00:18:10,507
point of being able to give a compliment,
422
00:18:10,507 --> 00:18:12,489
it might just be about being curious,
423
00:18:12,489 --> 00:18:14,471
just being interested in others and kind
424
00:18:14,471 --> 00:18:16,644
of keeping the focus. Externally rather
425
00:18:16,644 --> 00:18:19,621
than internally kind of help to bring
426
00:18:19,621 --> 00:18:22,599
some of that anxiety and pressure down.
427
00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:25,576
Yeah, yeah. And and so, so being
428
00:18:25,576 --> 00:18:27,703
curious, maybe asking questions, follow,
429
00:18:27,703 --> 00:18:30,680
listening and following up on what they
430
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,657
heard, anything they can do to keep
431
00:18:33,657 --> 00:18:36,592
the focus away from what. People thinking
432
00:18:36,592 --> 00:18:39,035
about me, kind of thoughts, right? Things
433
00:18:39,035 --> 00:18:41,479
like that. Or it could be also
434
00:18:41,479 --> 00:18:43,225
environmental things like kind of
435
00:18:43,225 --> 00:18:45,668
scanning the room, like when you enter
436
00:18:45,668 --> 00:18:48,461
in, like moving from left to right and
437
00:18:48,461 --> 00:18:50,905
kind of taking in everything. So that
438
00:18:50,905 --> 00:18:53,697
would be another way to kind of get
439
00:18:53,697 --> 00:18:56,584
outside of oneself, OK. And if
440
00:18:56,584 --> 00:18:58,827
somebody, let's say, for example, if you
441
00:18:58,827 --> 00:19:01,069
have somebody who is coming into therapy
442
00:19:01,069 --> 00:19:03,632
to get over their social anxiety or to,
443
00:19:03,632 --> 00:19:06,515
to, you know, I don't know if the right
444
00:19:06,515 --> 00:19:09,398
word is get over, but to, to, to get
445
00:19:09,398 --> 00:19:11,961
to a point where they're not the social
446
00:19:11,961 --> 00:19:14,203
anxiety isn't as debilitating as it used
447
00:19:14,203 --> 00:19:14,844
to be.
448
00:19:16,844 --> 00:19:19,763
How? Like how quickly can they get
449
00:19:19,763 --> 00:19:22,682
better? Or is it something that takes
450
00:19:22,682 --> 00:19:23,934
a long time?
451
00:19:25,364 --> 00:19:27,864
So it really just depends on the
452
00:19:27,864 --> 00:19:30,007
individual and how extreme, again, if
453
00:19:30,007 --> 00:19:32,151
they're just if they're having social
454
00:19:32,151 --> 00:19:35,009
anxiety or if they meet the threshold for
455
00:19:35,009 --> 00:19:37,152
social anxiety disorder. So it really
456
00:19:37,152 --> 00:19:39,652
depends upon the severity and it depends
457
00:19:39,652 --> 00:19:41,796
upon the individual. As you know,
458
00:19:41,796 --> 00:19:44,296
everyone is unique and has had different
459
00:19:44,296 --> 00:19:46,544
experiences. But some people can start
460
00:19:46,544 --> 00:19:48,633
practicing these skills, you know, after
461
00:19:48,633 --> 00:19:51,070
just after a few sessions. I always
462
00:19:51,070 --> 00:19:53,855
recommend, you know, it's it's kind of a
463
00:19:53,855 --> 00:19:55,596
goes with exposure therapies, trying
464
00:19:55,596 --> 00:19:57,685
things out in very like comfortable
465
00:19:57,685 --> 00:19:59,773
situations, very low stakes and then
466
00:19:59,773 --> 00:20:02,559
building up confidence to be able to do
467
00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:04,995
things that are a little bit more
468
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:07,201
difficult. You know, with the help and
469
00:20:07,201 --> 00:20:09,145
guidance of somebody like a therapist or
470
00:20:09,145 --> 00:20:11,368
it could also be with a trusted friend.
471
00:20:11,368 --> 00:20:13,591
Some people have, you know, it kind of
472
00:20:13,591 --> 00:20:15,536
goes back to the attachment idea and
473
00:20:15,536 --> 00:20:17,203
having a secure base. But some
474
00:20:17,203 --> 00:20:18,592
individuals bring other individuals with
475
00:20:18,592 --> 00:20:21,093
them, a friend or a loved one or a
476
00:20:21,093 --> 00:20:23,315
trusted person to kind of act as their
477
00:20:23,315 --> 00:20:25,538
secure base so to help them walk through
478
00:20:25,538 --> 00:20:28,423
these things. OK, that does
479
00:20:28,423 --> 00:20:31,401
sound nice. Um, what about like
480
00:20:31,401 --> 00:20:34,379
people who are self labeling and
481
00:20:34,379 --> 00:20:37,357
for example, somebody who might say,
482
00:20:37,357 --> 00:20:40,335
you know what, I have social
483
00:20:40,335 --> 00:20:43,313
anxiety and that's just who I
484
00:20:43,313 --> 00:20:46,291
am. It like do can have
485
00:20:46,291 --> 00:20:48,264
you seen?People.
486
00:20:49,514 --> 00:20:51,932
Truly like, overcome or significantly
487
00:20:51,932 --> 00:20:54,834
improve their social anxiety even though
488
00:20:54,834 --> 00:20:57,736
they think that's part of who
489
00:20:57,736 --> 00:21:00,632
they are. Yeah, absolutely.
490
00:21:00,632 --> 00:21:02,868
I mean, I can attest to that myself
491
00:21:02,868 --> 00:21:04,545
because social anxiety is still something
492
00:21:04,545 --> 00:21:06,501
that I have and something that operates.
493
00:21:06,501 --> 00:21:09,016
It's just that in my life, it's just it's
494
00:21:09,016 --> 00:21:11,251
not in the driver's seat anymore. I am,
495
00:21:11,251 --> 00:21:13,207
but it's always there. I can always
496
00:21:13,207 --> 00:21:15,722
address it and kind of see it off into
497
00:21:15,722 --> 00:21:17,958
the distance or see it before me, but
498
00:21:17,958 --> 00:21:19,634
there's space between myself and the
499
00:21:19,634 --> 00:21:22,291
anxiety. Right. So it's not in control
500
00:21:22,291 --> 00:21:24,667
anymore. I, I'm aware and present that
501
00:21:24,667 --> 00:21:27,384
it's there, but at the same time I'm,
502
00:21:27,384 --> 00:21:30,100
I doing, I'm making the choice to do
503
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:32,816
the things I love and I love and
504
00:21:32,816 --> 00:21:34,514
enjoy connecting with others, right?
505
00:21:36,004 --> 00:21:38,724
So, but I did try other negative
506
00:21:38,724 --> 00:21:40,667
coping skills before I developed
507
00:21:40,667 --> 00:21:43,388
healthier coping skills, and I think that
508
00:21:43,388 --> 00:21:46,109
that's the key, is being able to
509
00:21:46,109 --> 00:21:48,829
have some tools in your toolkit for
510
00:21:48,829 --> 00:21:51,550
dealing with these things and you can
511
00:21:51,550 --> 00:21:53,882
certainly recover. Does it completely go
512
00:21:53,882 --> 00:21:56,658
away? That hasn't been my experience. But
513
00:21:56,658 --> 00:21:59,651
for others, that might very well be the
514
00:21:59,651 --> 00:22:02,604
case, right? OK. That's good to know.
515
00:22:03,964 --> 00:22:06,883
That I think from from a standpoint
516
00:22:06,883 --> 00:22:08,134
of a therapist.
517
00:22:09,744 --> 00:22:12,493
Um. Would you,
518
00:22:12,493 --> 00:22:15,452
would you say that the people who suffer
519
00:22:15,452 --> 00:22:18,041
the most from social anxiety, they have
520
00:22:18,041 --> 00:22:20,999
awareness that they have it and they are
521
00:22:20,999 --> 00:22:23,958
coming to seek treatment or do you, is
522
00:22:23,958 --> 00:22:26,916
it more of one of those where they
523
00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:29,875
just suffer from it and they don't become
524
00:22:29,875 --> 00:22:32,485
aware of it and don't seek?Street
525
00:22:32,485 --> 00:22:34,666
treatment, What what have you seen? It
526
00:22:34,666 --> 00:22:37,470
can be, it can be both. OK. There can
527
00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:39,963
be people that will come to therapy and
528
00:22:39,963 --> 00:22:42,767
say I know I have this. I've looked up
529
00:22:42,767 --> 00:22:45,259
the symptoms in the DSM where I've, you
530
00:22:45,259 --> 00:22:47,752
know, done a Google search or ask chachi
531
00:22:47,752 --> 00:22:50,244
PT and I have social anxiety, right? So
532
00:22:50,244 --> 00:22:52,643
they come in, they self diagnose. And
533
00:22:52,643 --> 00:22:54,805
they're saying they know exactly and they
534
00:22:54,805 --> 00:22:57,276
have a very high awareness of what they
535
00:22:57,276 --> 00:22:59,748
have right, of what their of what they're
536
00:22:59,748 --> 00:23:01,601
experiencing. They just don't have the
537
00:23:01,601 --> 00:23:03,764
the tools, right. They don't have the
538
00:23:03,764 --> 00:23:05,926
coping skills available to them. So and
539
00:23:05,926 --> 00:23:08,089
then there are others that don't that
540
00:23:08,089 --> 00:23:10,251
have other come in for other presenting
541
00:23:10,251 --> 00:23:12,105
concerns, right, They might be going
542
00:23:12,105 --> 00:23:13,694
through. Relationship issues or
543
00:23:13,694 --> 00:23:15,308
isolation, addiction, problems with
544
00:23:15,308 --> 00:23:18,133
addiction and it might be so. There
545
00:23:18,133 --> 00:23:20,958
might be other things that are masking
546
00:23:20,958 --> 00:23:23,782
this, but underneath there might be some
547
00:23:23,782 --> 00:23:26,204
anxiety or social anxiety as well.
548
00:23:29,104 --> 00:23:31,737
So a lot of people might kind
549
00:23:31,737 --> 00:23:34,371
of describe maybe through, you know, when
550
00:23:34,371 --> 00:23:37,005
they're younger child or in their teen
551
00:23:37,005 --> 00:23:39,262
years, perhaps their 20s, like maybe
552
00:23:39,262 --> 00:23:41,520
feeling like they don't necessarily fit
553
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,154
in or belong, just feeling different, not
554
00:23:44,154 --> 00:23:46,787
really sure, not being sure why and
555
00:23:46,787 --> 00:23:49,659
that. Very well-being because of social
556
00:23:49,659 --> 00:23:52,557
anxiety right right right so like
557
00:23:52,557 --> 00:23:55,190
I I. And
558
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:57,806
I guess this is based on
559
00:23:57,806 --> 00:24:00,423
somebody I know like that told
560
00:24:00,423 --> 00:24:03,039
me that they can't, they don't
561
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:05,656
feel comfortable talking to the opposite
562
00:24:05,656 --> 00:24:08,272
gender and in especially in a
563
00:24:08,272 --> 00:24:10,889
dating context, but they are OK
564
00:24:10,889 --> 00:24:13,505
talking to the same gender but
565
00:24:13,505 --> 00:24:16,238
not the opposite. Gender umm and
566
00:24:16,238 --> 00:24:18,948
somebody else recommended a group and
567
00:24:18,948 --> 00:24:21,657
I actually haven't had a chance
568
00:24:21,657 --> 00:24:24,366
to look into this group, but
569
00:24:24,366 --> 00:24:27,076
it's called like awkward and awesome
570
00:24:27,076 --> 00:24:29,785
or something. And I guess it's
571
00:24:29,785 --> 00:24:32,494
a New York based group where
572
00:24:32,494 --> 00:24:34,752
people who consider themselves socially
573
00:24:34,752 --> 00:24:37,464
awkward. Then go and get, you know,
574
00:24:37,464 --> 00:24:40,318
get support and get better at it and,
575
00:24:40,318 --> 00:24:43,172
and things like that. Would you say like
576
00:24:43,172 --> 00:24:45,670
when you've dealt with people who have
577
00:24:45,670 --> 00:24:47,810
social anxiety or who consider themselves
578
00:24:47,810 --> 00:24:50,580
socially awkward?Is it
579
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:53,190
select like can it be selective with
580
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:55,428
different types of people that they're
581
00:24:55,428 --> 00:24:58,039
talking to or is it like everybody's
582
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:00,650
like, wow, no, I can definitely be
583
00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:02,514
selective, especially dating, right? I
584
00:25:02,514 --> 00:25:05,498
mean that just can be bring up anxiety
585
00:25:05,498 --> 00:25:08,109
for for people that don't even have
586
00:25:08,109 --> 00:25:10,587
social anxiety, right, That's just. It
587
00:25:10,587 --> 00:25:12,647
can be a pretty anxiety provoking
588
00:25:12,647 --> 00:25:15,051
situation, um, mostly because of the that
589
00:25:15,051 --> 00:25:17,455
fear of rejection, right? Which again is,
590
00:25:17,455 --> 00:25:20,202
is also at the heart of social anxiety.
591
00:25:20,202 --> 00:25:22,262
But even individuals that don't have
592
00:25:22,262 --> 00:25:24,666
social anxiety can have that fear of
593
00:25:24,666 --> 00:25:26,383
rejection because you're putting yourself
594
00:25:26,383 --> 00:25:28,787
out there, you're vulnerable. So yeah, it
595
00:25:28,787 --> 00:25:31,551
can be limited to just. A specific
596
00:25:31,551 --> 00:25:34,275
group of people. You can feel
597
00:25:34,275 --> 00:25:36,999
more comfortable talking with people of
598
00:25:36,999 --> 00:25:39,722
the same sex and then feel
599
00:25:39,722 --> 00:25:41,992
uncomfortable talking to people who
600
00:25:41,992 --> 00:25:44,262
you're interested in dating romantically.
601
00:25:44,262 --> 00:25:45,624
Yeah, Yeah, OK.
602
00:25:46,842 --> 00:25:49,313
problem. Alright, so Danielle, thank you
603
00:25:49,313 --> 00:25:52,196
so much for coming on the show
604
00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:53,136
to talk about
605
00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:55,290
and and your therapy, therapeutic
606
00:25:55,290 --> 00:25:57,761
perspective as well as personal history.
607
00:25:57,761 --> 00:26:00,643
Is there anything you would like to
608
00:26:00,643 --> 00:26:03,201
share with the viewers?Like where can
609
00:26:03,201 --> 00:26:06,061
they find you?Sure. Well, well,
610
00:26:06,061 --> 00:26:08,834
thank you for having me, first of all,
611
00:26:08,834 --> 00:26:11,607
and I'm happy to share my experience and
612
00:26:11,607 --> 00:26:14,381
talk about how you can get help for
613
00:26:14,381 --> 00:26:16,461
social anxiety if that's something you're
614
00:26:16,461 --> 00:26:19,234
going through. So yes, you can find me
615
00:26:19,234 --> 00:26:21,314
on Psychology Today, Danielle Fraus. You
616
00:26:21,314 --> 00:26:24,087
could also find me at my website, which
617
00:26:24,087 --> 00:26:26,388
is Danielle. Www.com and I'm on Headway,
618
00:26:26,388 --> 00:26:28,541
Facebook and Instagram. So you can find
619
00:26:28,541 --> 00:26:31,308
me in a number of ways. And if you're
620
00:26:31,308 --> 00:26:33,768
if you feel like you're relating to this
621
00:26:33,768 --> 00:26:35,921
and this is something that you might
622
00:26:35,921 --> 00:26:38,688
think you have or that you need some help
623
00:26:38,688 --> 00:26:40,533
with navigating, then ioffer 10, you
624
00:26:40,533 --> 00:26:42,686
know, it's about a 10 minute phone
625
00:26:42,686 --> 00:26:45,146
consultation so that you can tell me a
626
00:26:45,146 --> 00:26:47,560
little bit. About what's going on with
627
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,326
you, we can chat, see if therapy would
628
00:26:50,326 --> 00:26:53,092
be a good option for you, if we
629
00:26:53,092 --> 00:26:55,858
would be a good fit. So yeah, please
630
00:26:55,858 --> 00:26:58,624
feel to feel free to contact me whether
631
00:26:58,624 --> 00:27:00,699
it's about social anxiety or anything
632
00:27:00,699 --> 00:27:03,465
else. So I deal with a host of
633
00:27:03,465 --> 00:27:05,539
different issues that the individuals are
634
00:27:05,539 --> 00:27:07,381
going through. Reaches depression,
635
00:27:07,381 --> 00:27:09,981
anxiety, addiction, codependency. And I
636
00:27:09,981 --> 00:27:12,581
work primarily with young adults,
637
00:27:12,581 --> 00:27:15,181
so individuals that are in
638
00:27:15,181 --> 00:27:17,781
their 20s and 30s kind
639
00:27:17,781 --> 00:27:20,381
of navigating life changes, you
640
00:27:20,381 --> 00:27:22,981
know, changes of career, maybe
641
00:27:22,981 --> 00:27:25,061
moving relationships, having difficulty
642
00:27:25,061 --> 00:27:28,049
connecting with others. So yeah, please
643
00:27:28,049 --> 00:27:30,845
feel free to find me and I'd, I'd
644
00:27:30,845 --> 00:27:33,641
be more than happy to connect with you.
645
00:27:33,641 --> 00:27:36,087
Awesome. And just you, are you licensed
646
00:27:36,087 --> 00:27:38,533
to practice in North Carolina and other
647
00:27:38,533 --> 00:27:41,329
states like South Carolina or how, how is
648
00:27:41,329 --> 00:27:43,426
your license? So I'm actually, I'm
649
00:27:43,426 --> 00:27:46,221
licensed in North Carolina as well as in
650
00:27:46,221 --> 00:27:48,868
Florida. So I can
651
00:27:48,868 --> 00:27:51,543
see clients virtually, um, in North
652
00:27:51,543 --> 00:27:52,881
Carolina and Florida.
653
00:27:54,431 --> 00:27:57,045
Pretty big, big area. So yeah, awesome.
654
00:27:57,045 --> 00:27:59,287
Well, this was such a meaningful
655
00:27:59,287 --> 00:28:01,154
conversation. Danielle, thank you for
656
00:28:01,154 --> 00:28:03,395
sharing your insight and also your
657
00:28:03,395 --> 00:28:06,010
compassion around that topic that so many
658
00:28:06,010 --> 00:28:08,251
people struggle with. If you're listening
659
00:28:08,251 --> 00:28:11,239
and if you see yourself in part of
660
00:28:11,239 --> 00:28:13,480
this conversation, I hope you're walking
661
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,257
away with this. You are not alone,
662
00:28:16,257 --> 00:28:18,893
and this is something that can shift
663
00:28:18,893 --> 00:28:21,530
over time with support and with the
664
00:28:21,530 --> 00:28:23,789
right tools. If this episode resonated
665
00:28:23,789 --> 00:28:26,426
with you, feel free to share it
666
00:28:26,426 --> 00:28:29,062
with someone else who might need it.
667
00:28:29,062 --> 00:28:31,698
And as always, please like and subscribe,
668
00:28:31,698 --> 00:28:34,334
and thank you for being part of
669
00:28:34,334 --> 00:28:36,899
this. Until next time,
670
00:28:36,899 --> 00:28:37,911
stay connected.
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